The Mental Ups (& Downs) Of Elite Sports with Christine Cavallo

*This is an automatically generated transcript*

Kristi Wagner  0:00  
Have you like, found your love of rowing again,

Christine Cavallo  0:08  
I hated it. The training being such a slog suffering for the sake of suffering, I was actively cutting weight. I had hormonal imbalances from doing that. I remember thinking that anyone who was having a good time right now is lying. I actually had like a bit of depression during that period of time. But then so I need to work through it. The time that I've taken away has let the mind and body heal in such a way where I can come back and say, Okay, maybe it wasn't the rowing. That was the problem. Maybe it was all these other factors stacked up and associated with rowing and I just got I got lost in the fog. I love racing. I just hate every day on the way to the start line.

Kristi Wagner  0:50  
Welcome to the other three years, a show for anyone who has an Olympic sized dream they want to turn into a reality. Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the other three years. This week. I have fellow rower and my longtime friend Christine cavalo on the podcast. I've known Christine since high school. And I've definitely been a fan girl of her for many years. She's on the smaller side but has raced internationally as both a lightweight and an open weight, which is super impressive in itself. She's a seventh time US national team member between junior year 23. Senior and the beach, Sprint's teams, and she'll race on her eighth team this summer at the beach sprints in Italy. But Christine has way more than her impressive rowing resume, which also highlights a boat race man with Oxford and three Ira championships at Stanford. During her time, which at Stanford, she was also a two time All American. And the list just goes on and on, literally. But I feel like Christine just doesn't say no to a challenge doesn't say no to like new cool opportunities, and has found a happy balance for herself between rowing, working and being a well rounded person. Our conversation covered a lot of topics, including early years, coaching, she said a lot of different coaches, balancing school and rowing. And then more recently, what changes she's made to her life to find happiness and love and rowing again. And I felt honestly really inspired by our conversation. And I hope all of you do, too. But before we get into that, here is an update on what's currently happening in my training. So I am still in Princeton. exciting, exciting. And it's race week. This week, I will be racing when this podcast is released on Friday. We have the last round of national team trials this week, on Thursday, Friday and Saturday at Mercer lake in New Jersey. And it's super exciting. I'm racing in the women's double with my doubles partner, Sophia V toss, and obviously a little bit nervous because that's what racing is it makes you a little bit nervous, but really excited. And I think just really excited to show what we've got and put down some good races that we're proud of and have have things to work on each round. Just keep getting better and better. I think staying internal as much as possible, which is funny because you're racing. So you obviously want to race the other boats. But I think for us like focusing on what's going to make our boat feel the best and go the fastest. And then like seeing where that puts us in the race and not just playing defense, but playing offense is kind of how I like to look at it. This weekend. I went back home to Saratoga just for like 24 hours, which was really great. I feel like it was so nice to just have a little bit of a break from New Jersey. Not that New Jersey's not great. I just personally like the place I got a call home a little bit more. And actually, today, Tuesday, the 25th is my boyfriend Chris's birthday. So we just celebrated his birthday a little bit and did some of my favorite upstate New York things like hiking and getting really good food going to the lake and getting a little swimmin so Oh, it was really nice and worth worth a little bit of driving to feel feel like a whole person again. Actually, in my conversation with Christine, we talked about getting a little too in the bubble. And what happens when you're feeling like rowing is kind of closing in on you and how to take, take a step back and just say, Okay, I'm, I am a whole person. And there are other things in my life besides this, this little carbon fiber boat. And I just felt like I needed that a little bit. So I'm proud of myself for taking the time to enjoy summer and be a real person, of course, very responsibly, because I do have an important race this week. So you know, not taking my eyes off the goal and still doing things that are going to make me the best athlete I can be. But I'm a firm believer that to be the best athlete I can be, I should really be the best person I can be. So besides that, not that much is going on. I have not seen any of the new movies Barbie or Oppenheimer. But maybe by next week, I will have some hot takes on on those movies. Because we probably will have a bit of downtime with racing. So thing not too much to report this week. But if you want to tune into the racing, I don't think it's going to be live streamed at all. But you can find the results on here now. And yeah, think fast thoughts for us. Hopefully, it's good racing for everyone involved there. Lots of different book classes racing. And the races are really early in the morning like 7am, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, so you won't have to wait too long after you wake up to see the results. So now it is time for my conversation with Christine cavalo. I really hope that you guys all like it. Christine had so many amazing things to say. I know she really got me thinking and inspired me. So yeah, I just hope that you guys all like it.

Christine, I'm so happy that you're gonna be on the podcast

Christine Cavallo  7:16  
today. Very happy to be here. It's been, I've seen all of the little clips come through. And just some of the conversations you've been having. Or like, I'm fangirling over. So honored to be here.

Kristi Wagner  7:28  
I was trying to remember when we met. I feel like it was in Saratoga that summer.

Christine Cavallo  7:34  
It was definitely 2011 training and Saratoga and it might have been 2010 If you were at the junior be spelling camp or around Saratoga at the time.

Kristi Wagner  7:45  
Okay, crazy. Yeah, that was a long time ago.

Christine Cavallo  7:49  
I know. I know. So much has happened says.

Kristi Wagner  7:53  
So yeah, for context, I guess for everybody. Christine rode in high school in Orlando. And that's where Saratoga like goes on their winter trips. So I feel like that was how the connection was made.

Christine Cavallo  8:09  
The connection happened before then when I was doing so the junior team selection and identification stuff. And that led me towards Chris Chase and cat. And being in Saratoga for one of those camps. My first summer rowing. And then from there, Chris Shay's was like, this girl's not that bad. Let's see if she wants to keep coming and rowing a little bit more. So I remember. And actually, it's like, this is such foreshadowing to the rest of my life. But the Wagner's the Kelly and Carrie the twins through were at Saratoga at the time called me and said, What are you doing? Starting next week? We need someone for Canadian Henley. And I was like, Yeah, sure all come and that. That was probably my first time getting on a plane by myself. And then fast forward to 2023 I do that pretty much every week Whenever someone's like, giving me some crazy new idea. But yes, origin story for that summer was like, I had met through us rowing, but then it was very much the Saratoga lifeline that brought me through and then honestly, it catalyzed a lot more from that. But that was very formative for me. So

Kristi Wagner  9:29  
no, that was so fun. Yeah, you told me that you would never roll lightweight. What? Because I because we were like going to college. And you guys were like asking about it, like starting the recruiting process. And you were like, No, I can't go lightweight.

Christine Cavallo  9:57  
I did not know I said that. Good. Does it suck Fry's V, but great that I'm putting that in the universe. You Who was your repair partner at the time, this girl, Lizzie Lizzie. That's right. Yeah. I remember you guys being just as absolute weapon. And like when Saratoga started the High Performance Team Orion in my head, I was like they've been at, they haven't had a high performance team since I've met them. Like, it's almost like you guys were the model. And they just hit like copy paste and expanded the amount of seats or capacity that they could have to support athletes like that. But I remember seeing that in 2011, before I knew anything about rowing. And so when Orion came out of the ground, I was like, obviously, this is happening. I don't know how often new programs crop up. I feel like it's not not terribly frequent, but definitely not ones that perform at the caliber that Orion has performed at. But it was just like a no brainer to me that that was happening. Because of watching you train in 2011. No,

Kristi Wagner  11:03  
thank you. But yeah, I feel like it's just cat

Christine Cavallo  11:08  
is good. He's good energy, for sure. I love it.

Kristi Wagner  11:12  
So I read all sorts of things about you on the internet.

Christine Cavallo  11:16  
Oh, boy to prepare for?

Kristi Wagner  11:19  
No, no, it was all good. And your website is like

Christine Cavallo  11:22  
beautiful. Okay, I'm gonna put a plug in for my cousin, who's a marketing design person who use me as a case study a little bit. And she crushed it like, and it's fantastic. So I have to give her like, it's unbelievable plug. Her name is Jensen. And if anyone needs marketing or anything in regards to rowing, or anything else, she is a killer.

Kristi Wagner  11:46  
Yeah, no, it was so well organized. Like it's just, I mean, I feel like I know all the things you've done, but it put them in like chronological order, which was very helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like crazy to see that

Christine Cavallo  12:00  
we've been going for this long. And you can definitely get into the thick of training and not really realizing all the little wins you've had along the way. So actually taking time to write stuff down like that. It was quite a cool exercise as well, just for me personally.

Kristi Wagner  12:16  
Yeah. So I feel like looking at your entire career not to like, jump ahead a ton, but it feels like you've kind of jumped into rowing, and then kind of not jumped out of rowing, but like had other focuses, then kind of caught the like, full time bug again, then come back, like is that an accurate? Yeah.

Christine Cavallo  12:43  
I mean, I've tried to retire several times. And yet here we are. So finally, I think it was Igor, who's Scotland full on Instagram. He walked up to me in the Riverside boathouse two days ago. And I made the same comment that I just said to you, like I keep trying to retire. And that seems to be the thing I'm worst at in this world is retiring, growing. And he's like, you just need to stop saying that you're retiring and accept that it's not going to happen. Like point blank said that to me. And I was like, I think I needed to hear that didn't hurt. That actually felt like a little bit too good that he said that. So he's probably correct. So I'm interested in where you think that I've stepped away? Because if it felt like, yeah, like I have the the points in my mind, or I definitely drifted away from the sport, mentally. But was there anything that kind of specifically stood out to you is like, she's out. And she's back in?

Kristi Wagner  13:40  
Yeah, I mean, I don't even think like, out of the sport. Just like this has happened for me to where, obviously, you have to have such a strong mental focus, and be all in on rowing, especially when like, you're about to race at a big race. But then that can just be so like, emotionally overwhelming. And we as people are more than rowers, and so it's like, then you put things into other avenues of your life. So I feel like during college, there were summers that you didn't focus on rowing. Or had like other goals. Yes,

Christine Cavallo  14:19  
on accident, or is like a very rarely felt like those decisions were intentional. Which is crazy, because looking back, I say with such confidence, the way that I was able to do all the things that I've done and like I've gotten very good at communicating it in a trajectory. But I like all expose myself right now. That was not the case. While I was going through it. I had no frickin idea I swore I wasn't gonna raise lightweight and then I raced lightweight, but then in retrospect, I'm like, Yeah, like that was a financially smart decision for me because the other schools didn't have the same stuff. For like, my student debt portfolio would be a very different perspective. And like all of like so many things were depending on who I'm talking to what's relevant for that, like, even when I talk to young athletes now, I'll point them towards like, where are you going to get the most financial support? Like other things aside, because that was just something that I'm so grateful for now is I made a decision based on that. Also, the fact that my dad called me and was like, You cannot go to New England, you idiot. We're from Florida. It snows there, you will die. And he was, like, on the money enough where I was like, Yeah, okay, fine. I had like my teenage tantrum about it, but like he was correct. But the summers I took off and you 23 Were kind of influenced by the one I like, had a really bad Ira freshman year, I passed out in the race. Apparently, a lot of people know me for that at this point, which was brought to my attention recently happy to go into that story. But I feel like I've told it a million times. So this is not like an additive thing for this podcast, but basically, passed out during the national championship. And then was like, Oh, my God, I need to put my eggs in some other baskets. Because if it's only rowing, and something like that happens, I have nothing. And the same if you go through an injury or whatnot. So a few of those things happened, had an injury as well. And all of my teammates from the U 20. Threes that we did that summer, all swore off summer rowing and national teams. I was like, Yeah, me too, guys. Stupid, hate it, whatever. What do I do? I'm like, not qualified to do anything. So I was like, alright, study abroad programs, and ended up studying abroad the following summer, and then leveraging that study abroad to actually get an internship abroad the following summer. So like, kind of snowballed there. And then I see in that summer when I've interning my teammates from the quad, who said that they were never going to row again? Are you 23 trials going to you 23 worlds and I was like, Wait a second, I am now left behind in the hate office. So that triggered sort of the comeback for me in 2017. And then I had a coach Kate Bercow kind of messes my mind a bit and be like, Why are you walking away? Like, check in with yourself? What? What's the actual motivation for this? Why are you trying to separate yourself from the sport? And it's been like, every day process since but I, yeah, anyway, I got myself back in and out a few times. And that's a whole separate thing. But I'll, I'll cut it there. Because that was like two minutes of monologuing. About my college traumas.

Kristi Wagner  17:40  
No, I mean, I think that everyone has things that are like, you know, pivotal moments or whatever. But I have heard about your freshman year at IRAs, I would definitely say that's not what I think about you. But I feel like that really was like a pivotal moment. So and then you came back to win three times, right?

Christine Cavallo  18:08  
Yeah, but literally, my motto is like, just 100%. And the coach was like, don't do anything fancy. In the final, just do what you've been doing. And it's fine. And I had to like, not throw myself over the edge of human existence. And I had a coach need to tell me not to do that. So it felt for the last three years, like I was coasting until Kate started kind of pushing me a bit more to PR to to end up breaking the world record. Like that was all because Kate was like, no, no, put the foot back on the gas a little bit and then keep going. So yeah, like, on paper, we won a national championship in practice was I continuously the same athlete that was I was not continuously the same version of myself as an athlete through that period, even though, like on paper, we won a national championship. That sounds really good to say like, it was amazing. Our team was very good. But yeah, I had waves in there.

Kristi Wagner  19:13  
I'm I mean, I think it's more important that you like, realize, because you could just say, oh, yeah, it was great. And we won, and I did a great job. Yeah. I mean, you could have just kept coasting right? And then probably retired and actually retired, but instead, you've done so many other cool things, and impressive things since graduating.

Christine Cavallo  19:41  
Yeah, like I have to credit my teammates, but especially my coaches along the way. And the thing that was the best like starting with Kate, this poor woman movie for all of like four months, not even like we had the my senior year, and then she's just like accident. really triggered something for me. And now I just talked about her all the time. And she's like, not even on social media most of the time, like, has no clue. And like Christine's talking, like, I don't know if her ears perk up at all, or if she's just like completely living her life in Seattle, but starting with her and then into elite level of training, and I'm actually super curious, your experience with this because you've had cat as this anchor through your whole career, I feel like I had a new coach almost every year I was unaffiliated for a long time, I remember thinking with this vivid clarity in the summer of 2017, how grateful I am to continue only because if nothing else, the people that are making themselves available to me as mentors and guides, and specifically the women that I am, like sleeping on their couches, and being coached by them, and just getting so much support from this network of weapons from like the last five decades of this sport, who are all just here and want to celebrate you for caring enough to continue. And that was like, I knew I'd unlocked something in the summer of 2017. And that's why I kept going with it honestly stumbled upon it. And then once the door kind of open, I was like, Oh, hell yeah, this is like, I'm growing into someone that I'm going to be so proud of one day. And then more and more. I was like, I'm proud of myself now. But like that took time. But like I was just I was stoked on the journey that I was on. But I'm curious, like the continuity that you've had in the years that we've talked this meeting, you've more or less had the same coach, like was college weird being coached by a different person?

Kristi Wagner  21:42  
Um, yes. And no. I mean, I had so much respect and still have so much respect for my college coaches. And like, well, Porter is, you know, an icon and I feel like I really wanted to go to Yale so that he would be my coach. And people are a bit controversial about him sometimes, but he cares so much. And our assistant coaches were Jamie Schneider, who's incredible, and then Sarah Trowbridge. And to be coached by her was amazing. And she had just come back from the Olympics. And like, that definitely was inspirational for me. And then to like race in the double, like the boat that she had wrote in was really cool. But yeah, cats been like my rock through the whole thing. can always call him if I needed something. Pep Talk slap of reality. That's aside,

Christine Cavallo  22:40  
do you feel like that's evolved over time? Or is it sort of, because when you work with someone for that long, there's inevitably going to be as an investment in each other that like, sometimes, I've really loved the perspective of a new coach to be like, alright, just explain it to me in a different way. Like, do you need that? Or do you feel like if cats coaching us something explaining something, he knows exactly how to communicate it to you by this point?

Kristi Wagner  23:06  
I think both. I mean, I've worked with a lot of other coaches, as well. Yeah, who is true or credible. But cat isn't afraid to believe in people, like not just me. But like anyone. And I feel like really a lot of the things that I've achieved, hell, like, kind of speak them into existence. That's something that

Christine Cavallo  23:33  
I watched other athletes do. And it made me uncomfortable at first, because I was like, this is just blind confidence. And then I'd watch someone with that confidence, go through their highs and lows, but only remember the highs, and then retell their story as like, the 100% version of themselves. And anything below that. You just let it go. You don't need it, forget it, whatever. And I was like this is your head is up in the clouds. And it's this false reality. But then I started to realize, like, that's so powerful. If you could have like a little bit of the delusion. It's this resiliency tool. And if you have someone outside of your own head that's doing that for you. That's such a deadly weapon for an athlete who's doing a high volume sport where you're grinding every day, and you have someone on the outside. That's like an absolute dreamer, shooting for the moon, bring it all the energy for you that that's such a valuable thing to have.

Kristi Wagner  24:34  
Yeah, and I feel like I've tried to, like say things and and kind of recognize people where they are. Because I've seen how much that has impacted like my career. Totally. I was actually going to ask you about coaches, because you've had so many.

Christine Cavallo  24:53  
I can't remember all of that. I know just

Kristi Wagner  24:57  
are there things that stick out out to you as like an overall theme or from specific people,

Christine Cavallo  25:05  
there are coaches that I do feel like you need to be on expert mode to understand sometimes to the point where like, there are coaches that I love, because I've had so many other coaches that I can hear them, see where they're coming from, and I can be coached by them. But like a more novice athlete is not going to have a good time working under them. Like, I can make this coaching environment work. Because I've have like the background in the history and longevity of being coaches, so many different ways that like, I know what you're trying to say what you're trying to get at so cueing for me. But it's made me very appreciative of the junior novice coach, like how specific of a skill set that is to make something land correctly the first time in a way where people are not having to rewrite the like, mental map of this kid who learned whenever they learned, and then you're inheriting something that like the foundation and the bones are not built, right. Like I think I gotten a much more appreciation for a high level technical understanding at a young age. But that's also like I was good on the erg. And I never really needed to learn technique. I still don't know technique. But like, it wasn't until I got to the senior team, when I got my teeth kicked out a few times that as like, I had to, like grapple with that. But like having to work on my technical side didn't really come until after college because we're in eighths. And I was always fast enough to make the boat and never the biggest problem. So it got to the point where I had to get quite far in my rowing career before I was like, no, no, your technique is and maybe as a shared experience for people. But like for me, it was definitely, much later in my career that I hit the ceiling technically.

Kristi Wagner  26:52  
Yeah, I think that that's kind of like an overall theme. Because when you grow in high school, and you're good, it's like you're good. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, college is big boats.

Christine Cavallo  27:05  
Yeah. But like the crap that I had to do to get length, I should just double down on the fact that it was moving boats. This is what I'm learning on this podcast. Thank you for your time.

Kristi Wagner  27:20  
Well, someone once told me that you should only be worried when you stop getting coached. Because that means they've given up.

Christine Cavallo  27:26  
Yeah, I mean, I've had those chapters as well. But any row for long enough. You catch the waves?

Kristi Wagner  27:34  
Yeah, I want to get to coastal. But I don't want to pass over like the 2021 Olympic trials and saying that you like found your love of rowing again. Can you just talk a little bit more about that. And yeah,

Christine Cavallo  27:50  
I hated it. A lot. I love racing. I think when I was in a spell of racing, not going well slash the training being such a slog for me, and just like suffering for the sake of suffering felt like the environment that I was in, I remembered training with Sicily and Chevy. And like that group in the basement and Sicily would come with a smile every day. And Jebi would just come knowing exactly the steps that she needed to take to get to the Olympics. And like Jebi has her own use case but like Sicily is brand new, in theory, she and I shouldn't be on the same wavelength. But like Sicily is the same age as me. And I remember viscerally that this poor girl, I don't think I've ever said this to her. Like I remember just seeing her like you're faking it. There's no way you're happy right now. How are you doing this? And I just like proceeded to watch her in awe throughout that entire Olympic cycle. Like not recognizing that I was actively cutting weight that I had kind of a lot of hormonal imbalances from doing that, like all these like weird things in my head from having done it at that point for since 2013. Having gone to a lightweight and college even though I said I wouldn't. I like to

Kristi Wagner  29:16  
throw you so much with that.

Christine Cavallo  29:17  
That threw me off. Now it's part of my story. But yeah, I just I remember thinking that anyone who is having a good time right now is lying. And then I kind of started to realize that I actually had like a bit of depression during that period of time, which I found out sort of in the rearview mirror, which made a lot of things make sense, hurt to hear even though like it didn't change the reality, but then started to work through it. I've definitely in part of like finding the love again. It's just the time that I've taken away has let the mind and body heal in such a way where I can come back You can say, okay, maybe it wasn't the rowing. That was the problem. Maybe it was all these other factors stacked up and associated with rowing. And I just got I got lost in the fog. But it is I love racing. So when I do get a chance to race and it goes, well, like that is the best feeling I just hate every day on the way to start live.

Kristi Wagner  30:20  
No, I actually, like really resonate with that, because I feel like there's obviously times that everybody is like low, because the training is just so monotonous. But it's so hard to see like, in the moment, you're just like, oh, I guess this is how it's supposed to be.

Christine Cavallo  30:39  
The thing is, I can see it now. And I can see when other people are in it, because I've done. Maybe I'll eat my words one day, and I'm sure in a couple years time, I'll be looking back on this and saying I knew nothing. But in this moment, I know how to pull myself out. And I know when I'm descending into it. And I know like I have safety mechanisms. I have things where like, if I'm feeling this way I stop, and I cross train, but like not like the way that I did before where it's like, oh, it's an injury prevention, and you're still like, having anxious thoughts during like, No, I actually will detach, I will hit reset. And I've capable of doing that now. I like the way that I'm able to be aware of it now.

Kristi Wagner  31:21  
What are like some of the things that you'll do?

Christine Cavallo  31:26  
I think I used to find, like personal relationships and even time with family to be a luxury that, like Did not get me to the Olympics. And now I recognizing how much those connections like on a deep meaningful level impact my ability to get up every day.

Kristi Wagner  31:50  
Yeah. 100%. All right. Coastal rowing. How How did it start?

Christine Cavallo  31:58  
on accident, per usual the same way that accidentally Gary called me, like, come to Saratoga next week. John, all brace, like, we need a seat filled in the quad for a woman who has all the qualifications as if they were going to the Olympics. But he's not going to the Olympics. They didn't make the team and also has not retired and you're the only person in that Venn diagram, do you want to come as like, Thank you. Sure. And like went just to help them qualify the boat. Ended up qualifying, ended up staying in the boat and then have kind of gone to retire or like gone to the Oxford year, come back and raced. I was not planning on continuing and then the coach kept messaging me. And thank God he did, because it's just like, it's so fun. I don't know, like, if you've ever surfed it is surfing and rolling at the same time. And like all the things that you want to get stressed and worked up about, you can't, because a wave is going to hit you and ruin five years of training. And what are you going to do then? Like you just you don't have control? You have to relinquish it. And it was so freeing to go do that, that I don't know. I like I like having it be 60% My training and 40% How well do you dance with the crazy circumstances that are thrown at you in real time? And it is fun. It's good. If you ever want to come get out on the coast, just let me know. We'll go we have quads and doubles, and we can get you out.

Kristi Wagner  33:41  
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe. No, I do think it would be fun though. I actually love rowing in like, really windy weather.

Christine Cavallo  33:51  
That's I mean, that's what it is like, I handled the boat race conditions flawlessly, because I just knew how to stay relaxed in rough water. And I did that with like a wheat. Like, instead of just going out in your Philippi that's going to sink because they're designed to be like Lamborghinis on perfectly blast conditions. Like I'm out in rough water. And I'm just getting the most extreme conditions and learning how to handle them. And then I come back to flat water conditions. And it's nothing like I just it's helps my boat handling ability as well for flat water training.

Kristi Wagner  34:27  
So you did this row 360 article. And you said that your worst nightmare would be rowing across the ocean in two hour shifts. And I know that's not exactly what coastal rowing is. But now that you've done more coastal rowing, is that still your nightmare? Would you do it?

Christine Cavallo  34:50  
Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Dude, my race is 250 meters long now. Okay,

Kristi Wagner  34:59  
but you've done something stuff, right?

Christine Cavallo  35:01  
Yeah, against my will like because I'm already there. And it's 6k Max, and it was terrible. And that's actually one of the funniest stories that I have in my Roman world. But we basically like got into a fight with the Spanish boat and like kept crashing with them over 6000 meters in the open ocean. Literally like the life jackets go flying from one boat allegedly. I can't comment further. But like it's at God so feisty. I think I got concussed by one of their oars, like hitting our boat and then my orc comes down and hits me like and we someone complained about us we were like in like the integrity review of World Rowing tower for like 40 minutes waiting for them to tell us like like you didn't wait in the penalty box long enough they have a floating penalty box in the middle of the ocean that you have to pull your boat into and wait for one minute. Are you kidding me? Like I don't know who wrote the rules but they're so absurd that you just cannot care about anything else on this earth and yet like it's still more meaning than if I was going like because I walked away from rowing and came back like working out in a gym by myself with no higher purpose is not it for me. Especially not if my body could go out and do these open raishin ocean raises. The beach rinse team is the national team and the distance stuff is sort of like anyone who wants to do it can do it. So that's the order there the Sprint's are definitely my priority, because I've always loved doing that. But the distance is like, it's just ridiculous. I'm aware. It's ridiculous. And I don't need to do it for longer. I just needed like a dose of that experience. And then I'm good.

Kristi Wagner  36:46  
Now I just had to check.

Christine Cavallo  36:47  
Have you seen these ocean crossings? Like I'm sure people have reached out to you and said, Do you want to go do them?

Kristi Wagner  36:54  
No one has reached out to me, but I don't think I'm interested.

Christine Cavallo  36:59  
I'm not fell for this. I don't have the attention span for this.

Kristi Wagner  37:02  
No. I like sleep too much.

Christine Cavallo  37:05  
Dude, if I have to borrow more than 75 minutes straight, I have a bad day. Like I'm not seeing the ocean.

Kristi Wagner  37:16  
So you're preparing now for the beach sprints championships? Which Yeah. How's that going?

Christine Cavallo  37:27  
It's going well. We were supposed to go to Bali though for another the world beach games. And that got canceled. So it's kind of scrambled bit of the tro did?

Kristi Wagner  37:38  
What is that? Sorry.

Christine Cavallo  37:41  
Great question. And the thing that it's a convening of all beach related sports. So it's like beach handball, beach soccer, beach volleyball, there's ocean water polo. And then beach. Sprint rowing is one of the events and there's like a few others. It's absurd. But it's like an Olympic event. So the IOC is the one coordinating all of it, that I don't really know the full backstory, they just like didn't have the funds that they thought they were gonna have and canceled it 30 days out, which is a bit of drama. But fortunately, I also qualified for the World Championships, which is only rowing. And that one is happening in southern Italy in end of September.

Kristi Wagner  38:28  
That's awesome. That'll be so fun. Um, I know we've been going for a little while, but I do just want to hear about your job. Oh, yes.

Christine Cavallo  38:39  
What do you want it out,

Kristi Wagner  38:41  
I guess like how it came to be and how you've kind of balanced career and sport and what that relationship is like now?

Christine Cavallo  38:51  
Sure. So after undergrad, I started a master's, and then dropped out of that to go row in Boston, they knew I was going to come back. Joke's on them. Got some experience working in climate security. And because of that, I realized that I wanted to go more into the private sector to drive change because the government specific government facing policy facing work I was doing was really cool. But it felt like that wasn't the lever that could move fast enough for what needs to happen in terms of like climate and ecological issues and like ecosystems collapsing and all of that. So when I went to Oxford, I studied sustainable enterprise. And now I work for an organization called the UN Global Compact, and it's the private sector arm of the UN that does corporate sustainability, and we target really big companies that have global footprints and try and help them strengthen And they're human rights and labor and anti corruption and climate policies, with the goal that that will make, that will improve quality of life and quality of interactions with the environment in ways that are currently negative or harmful in how our global economy works today. And so I just get to talk to companies about what they're currently doing and sustainability, if they need any of our programming, or if they want to collaborate as a partner, and be sort of amplified by our various events and speaking engagements. So right before the World Championships, I'll have to fly I'll be training in, in the in Europe. And I'll have to fly back for the UN General Assembly, and then fly back over to Italy to prep for the World Championships. So September is going to be kind of ridiculous. But it's what I want to be doing. And it's a bit selfish. So I get to have a very purpose driven work, that means a lot to me. And I get to push my body in ways that also mean a lot to me. So I'm quite happy with the balance.

Kristi Wagner  41:09  
And you feel like, like the actual balance is sustainable.

Christine Cavallo  41:14  
I do you personally, the problem is that I keep saying yes to everything outside of that. So now like I actually have been drowning, because I am not good at saying no, when opportunities come to me. And you're getting better at it. But like, my, I think it's sort of like an athlete mindset of like, tell me what I need to do, and I will do it. And then I just I can't respond like everyone is a coach that I need to trust, I need to like set up some boundaries on it. And I'm still working on how to do that. But in in a theoretical world where I only have rowing in this job, I can do both. And I love doing both because they both Fill my cup. And if either one becomes overwhelming, I can go to the other. And like, rather than having everything dependent on one of those two things, I really do feel like I'm better at both because I have both.

Kristi Wagner  42:05  
That's amazing. This has been so great. I feel like you've had so many really good things to say.

Christine Cavallo  42:10  
I am so happy we got to catch up. I think this is the longest we've chatted in like years at this point. So this is

Kristi Wagner  42:17  
the phone. The phone is going off in our hotel room. I had never heard the sound before. Where are you? I'm in Princeton.

Christine Cavallo  42:26  
Are you in the residence in? Oh, God, I have so many memories. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. That's the movie theater. That's the place of the movie theater down the place next door, you can go to the mall with a movie theater. That's it. That's where that trauma came from. Oh my god, I've been there. spurt. They have so much of my money. It's insane.

Kristi Wagner  42:53  
Well, I really appreciate you coming on. And I just have to tell you that I saw you were like, who wants to row in the pair with me at Henley next summer? Don't I can't do it next summer. But the next summer Count me in

Christine Cavallo  43:11  
alltrails Start training now. I'm now I'm now on a two year training cycle for heavily 2025. It's done. Are you bored? Yeah. Yes, I putting it in my calendar. You will be so

Kristi Wagner  43:26  
good together.

Christine Cavallo  43:28  
I agree. Let me know. Afterwards, I can come down. We can just get a practice row in just to see if it's worth it. Chess. Okay, perfect.

Kristi Wagner  43:40  
Yeah,

Christine Cavallo  43:41  
is there anything else you want to say to the people before we go? Congrats to all the boats that are going to Worlds this year. It's really cool being a fly on the wall. But watching this cycle happen. And like the from a bird's eye view that I have, it really seems like everyone gets to develop and everyone's really part of making this team into what it is whether you made the crew or not. So I hope that everyone even if you're not racing at the world championships this year, like you're taking a deep breath and realizing that everything that's happened this year is developing you to be better for next year and so on. So don't don't get lost in the fog of this. And I have like chills watching this from the outside. I'm really excited for everyone who's part of this cycle.

Kristi Wagner  44:24  
It's been pretty impressive to see like, what so many of the boats have been able to do and yeah, I just hope the train keeps rolling. We can't wait to watch you running across the beach, dude. It's gnarly bruises.

Christine Cavallo  44:37  
Yeah, I do come back like my whole leg is purple. But it is very scenic in the process. It sucks. It's so much lactic acid. But so so far, so thank you for having me.

Kristi Wagner  44:51  
Thank you so much. Talk to you soon.

So that was an awesome episode. I am so grateful for Christine Carvalho for coming on. She had so many awesome things to share this week for Ask Kristi anything. Our bright sighted intern Charlotte asked me last week, you mentioned the TED lasso quote that said something along the lines of the harder you work, the luckier you get. How much of success do you think is driven by luck versus hard work? So Charlotte, and everybody have to start with a quote that my college coaches say all the time. And that is, how do you spell luck, w o r k. And I do think that he is both right and wrong. I think that we make our own luck, and we create opportunities for ourselves. But in all of life, and in all in in sports, like circumstances happen. And I don't know if everyone would call that luck, but I kind of call it luck. I think that sometimes you have to have things fall into place at the right time. And again, to me, that is a little bit of luck. But maybe to other people, it's more just circumstance and timing and not luck. I think that you can also get unlucky and you can have prepared perfectly. And everything can be, you know, you can have done everything you can do and still something bad can happen that's totally outside your control. And that's just life. But I'd say it's a mix, I guess probably in the like 80% 85% work, and then the rest is luck. I maybe even a little bit higher than that on work. But I do think that a little bit of luck is involved. I think that sometimes for really, really special things to happen. Like all of the stars have to align. And that is a little bit of luck. If you have a question for Ask Kristi anything like that amazing question that Charlotte asked me. You can send it to me on Instagram at Christine number one or the other three years@gmail.com. And I would be happy to answer it on the show. Just to close the show. This week. We have our quote of the week. And this week, I have a quote from Babe Ruth, who said it's hard to beat a person who never gives up. So thanks for listening. Have a great week. I'd love to hear from you. So send us a topic suggestion or if you'd like to submit a question for our Ask Kristi anything segment, head to our website, theother3years.com